My, How the Mighty Have Fallen
Watching the Douglas Murray vs Dave Smith JRE Episode so you don't have to. However, you probably should so you can say you have "Bean" there.
Edit: Apparently every historian agrees that Hitler applied his antisemitism pragmatically to avoid national outrage. Here’s what I found :
From page 102 of Ian Kershaw's "Hitler, the Germans, and the Final Solution," where the author remarks about Hiter's propensity to temper his violent antisemitism in the early 1930s, a timeframe Murray denies him doing so:
Courtesy of Author and Historian, Dave Benner, Nemesis of Neocons on X.
Let me just start out by saying it’s kind of “weird” to talk about fishing for “algorithm hits” when you’re cover piece for the NY POST that I’ve listened to you brag about on two different podcasts now — “it was a picture of Vladimir Putin and said, ‘Mr. President, THIS is a dictator’” — like you’d said something truly illuminating and then follow that with — I shit you not — a top 10 list of facts about Russia-Ukraine that everybody knows, and you could’ve farmed from Wikipedia. Yes, we get it, Putin is a dictator. Thank you for your Rachel Maddow-esque take.
This will be a live blog of the Joe Rogan Experience #2303 — Dave Smith vs Douglas Murray and I am seven minutes in and outraged.
Please Subscribe!
Douglas starts in on Joe at one minute and twenty seconds:
Murray: Can I ask you something?
Joe: Yes sir.
Murray: since the war in Israel began, and since the war in Ukraine began you've had quite a lot of people who are very against both in different ways
Joe: Yes.
Murray: Do you think you've had enough people on who are supportive of either war?
Joe: I don't know that word “enough”, I don’t know if that's a good word—
Murray: —um, let's say, on let's say enough people who are on the side of Israel instead of wild critics of Israel.
Joe: Well, I've had a few, I mean I believe Gad Sad is on the side of Israel, um for sure Jordan (Peterson) is on the side of Israel, um—
Dave: —you had Mike Baker, Coleman Hughes—
Murray: —Coleman “did it” for like 20 minutes, it wasn't why he was here—
“Did it” What is this “did it?” Like it’s a required exercise to spout a certain amount of your views on a thing. What does that mean?
Joe: —no. I mean none of them—none of them is why they're here, you know, it's a good question.
Murray: Do you think you've tilted one way?
Joe: Um… Me personally, no, just with the guests, the guests yeah probably more tilted towards the idea that perhaps the way they've done it is barbaric.
Murray (makes a slimy): Mhm, but why do you think that is? Just out of interest in your selection of guests, because you're like the world's number one podcast.
Joe: Yeah, it's not, I don't—I don't think about it that way. I just think, I'd like to talk to this person—
Murray: —but can I just—Sorry it's your show—
Joe (ever graceful): Sure.
Murray: If you're going to interview historians of the conflict or historians in general, why would you get somebody like Ian Carrol or—
Joe: Yeah, but Ian Carrol, I didn't bring him on for that purpose. I brought him on because I want to find out like, how's one gets involved in the whole conspiracy theory business cuz his whole thing is just conspiracies, you know.
I’m getting viscerally angry just going through these words. Joe, bless his heart, has Ian Carrol wrong. Ian Carroll is an Independent Journalist. He looks at subjects that are considered conspiracy and uncovers the truth in them. Provides the evidence and lets you decide for yourself, which is what I like to believe I’m doing here. If you don’t know who Ian Carrol is, he did these presentations at Old State Saloon, here, put this on pause and watch these, they disrupted my view of the world:
And two more four months later:
Watch those. There is not an untrue claim in them. If Israel seems to come up a lot, it might be because they’ve been involved in a lot of evil shit. They’re even brainwashing our public intellectuals. Look what they’ve done to the great Douglas Murray. Upset there is not more pro-murder guests on the biggest podcast in the world. Sheesh!
Murray: Sure, but do you have any, uh, I mean there's been a tilt in the conversation, in both conversations in the last couple of years, and it's largely to do with people who have appointed themselves “experts”, who are not experts.
Joe: Oh, you mean like Ian? I don't think Ian appoints himself an expert in anything.
Murray: Who's that other dude? Who thinks he's an expert on Churchill
Dave and Joe: Darryl?
Joe: (This is where Joe gets offended, you can feel it, he loves Darryl) Oh Daryl Cooper does not think he's an expert.
Dave: In fact, I think it's everybody else is always calling him an expert and he's like I'm just a history nerd.
Joe: Have you ever absorbed any of his material? Have you ever consumed any of his podcasts or anything like that?
Murray: (Just outright lies) I tried, it's pretty hard to listen to somebody who says, "I don't know what I'm talking about but now I'm going to talk, or I don't know about this or I'm not capable of debating this historian but I'm going to just tell you what I think."
This is such a stupidly insane point. That is literally what podcasting is. This is what the world is, it’s what life is. How many things in our life are we absolutely sure of, but we still say, “what we think”. How dumb.
The debate part. if you don’t know is a reader and is more well-read than, well, definitely than Douglas Murray. It seems Douglas Murray is against viewpoint diversity. Is this not wokeness? Back to Darryl, when he puts a podcast together, he reads every book, every article, he listed everything he read to prepare for the “Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem” it was over FOUR HUNDRED BOOKS AND OVER A THOUSAND ARTICLES. EVERYTHING HE COULD FIND ON THE FOUNDING OF ISRAEL BEFORE 1948. He was, to say the least, very prepared, and it is a 25-hour long series. His Jonestown series, “God’s Socialist”, I think is 30+ hours long. He read every book on it, which there was a lot less available on that subject, but he listens to the declassified Jim Jones sermons available online in the FBI archives, he listened to them all, and got a hold of police reports of hostage situations with meth involved where the father kills everyone and takes his own life and found how it correlated with the Jim Jones story. Because he found that when those situations went bad it when the police handled the situation with aggression and escalation, instead of de-escalatory means.
Anyways, he spends years on a topic, writes a script, and reads the script. He said, straight up. “I don’t wanna debate Andrew Roberts on this, I read Andrew Roberts and respect his work. I don’t do well in debates and I don’t know enough about this subject to debate him.”
And he didn't. He said many times, and he said in his maliciously clipped statement on Tucker that he doesn’t believe Churchill was worse than Hitler. That’s just stupid.
If you want an excellent representation of who is, you could subscribe to him at or you could watch this beautifully timed podcast from the Duncan Trussel Family Hour:
Dave: Yeah, but that's not exactly what Darryl was saying, I mean Darryl's point of view, however you feel about this, what Darryl is saying is he doesn't really like doing debates, he likes to do long format stuff where he can really explain his position.
Douglas: If you throw a lot of shit out there there's some point at which “I'm just raising questions” is not a valid thing. You're not raising questions, you're not asking questions, you're telling people something.
Douglas has no fucking clue who
is. He’s literally addressing the “Just asking questions” meme. What the fuck?!Joe: Do you think Daryl's doing that?
Murray: I think there's a whole bunch of guys doing that, I think Dave is doing that, very obviously, Dave's a comedian, but he's now mainly talking about Israel.
Joe: No—
Dave: —No, I don't know if I mainly talk about Israel—
Murray: —that's all I see—
Dave: —yeah, but that's—
Joe: Well, that’s just you consuming clips.
Murray: —but that is also your shtick now, isn't it?
Dave: Well, what do you mean by “that's my shtick.”
Dave: Well, you're not a geopolitics guy, in general, are you?
This smarmy British bastard! I now hate him forever! Dave didn’t understand his question because no one calls it geopolitics, but yes, I’ve consumed all of Dave Smiths content for years. He IS a geopolitics guy. That is his “shtick” as it is mine also, he is most animated by the issue of war because —by the way— it is the most destructive aspect of the human condition. War is the worst thing we, humans, do. The second worst thing we do is try to convince others that the first thing is okay!
Dave: I don't even know exactly what you're asking?
Murray: I'm saying you've decided, being a comedian, you've decided now, to become somebody who talks about Israel—
Joe: (Joe’s face is turning dark, he’s attacking his friends) —I don't—I think you're incorrect. I don't think it's a decision. I just think you have long form conversations, multiple, of them, it's a huge event that's in the news, so it comes up. I don't think it's a thing. I think if you're on the outside you'd say, “Oh look they're trying to get attention by talking about this very polarizing issue publicly.” That's—
Murray: —they do, you do get attention from that, if you'd spent the last year speaking about Myanmar, you would not be, on my lips. (Douglas said that, looking at Dave in a very homoerotic way, that’s what this is really about, I think. Douglas Murray is trying to turn Dave Smith out)
Joe: Yeah, but he does talk about Yemen constantly, he talks about a lot of things that aren't in the news.
Dave: Well, I tend I tend to talk about the conflicts that my government is directly involved in, which I think is reasonable to me, but I don't quite get, like what's all the “appeal to authority” stuff? I mean, what you have to be an expert and what exactly makes you an expert?
What indeed, Douglas?
Joe hasn’t had enough people critical of Israel on if you ask me. Abby Martin needs to come back.
Dear God Douglas made a claim at 11 minutes in that
said Hitler was downplaying antisemitism in the 1930’s. Let’s see what he actually said… Okay, so he did say that at 43:29-44:17 but not in the way Douglas is saying, he said most of the speeches out there where Hitler was talking about the Jews was not public speeches, they were National Socialist rallies, it wasn’t like Hitler said “We’re gonna kill the Jews!” And the German people were like “Right on!”👍Even in 1938 when the Kristallnacht happened there was outrage from the German public. And that seems to be true according to the “Holocaust Encyclopedia”,Nazi officials disguised the organized nature of the pogroms. They described the actions as justifiable and spontaneous responses of the German population to the assassination of a German diplomatic official, Ernst vom Rath, in Paris.
It sounds like a more violent version of where America got their idea for the regime changes, they do now. Organize unrest in the street, disguise the unrest as organic when it is actually organized by the state.
The violence was instigated primarily by Nazi Party officials and members of the SA (Sturmabteilung: commonly known as Storm Troopers) and Hitler Youth.
In its aftermath, German officials announced that Kristallnacht had erupted as a spontaneous outburst of public sentiment in response to the assassination of Ernst vom Rath. Vom Rath was a German embassy official stationed in Paris. Herschel Grynszpan, a 17-year-old Polish Jew, had shot the diplomat on November 7, 1938. A few days earlier, German authorities had expelled thousands of Jews of Polish citizenship living in Germany from the Reich; Grynszpan had received news that his parents, residents in Germany since 1911, were among them.
Grynszpan's parents and the other expelled Polish Jews were initially denied entry into their native Poland. They found themselves stranded in a refugee camp near the town of Zbaszyn in the border region between Poland and Germany. Already living illegally in Paris himself, a desperate Grynszpan apparently sought revenge for his family's precarious circumstances by appearing at the German embassy and shooting the diplomatic official assigned to assist him.
Jesus. This makes me feel ill. So, what he’s saying is not all German people were monstrous Jew hating killers. I feel we, as Americans, whose leadership has committed Kristallnacht all across the middle East 100 times over. Maybe that’s a crazy thing to say, I don’t know.
Back to the show… I’m at 11:29.
My God Douglas goes from being so wrong to so right to so wrong again.
At 17 minutes he said, “It was racist to say covid variants were coming from the place making covid variants.”
21:59 “Why are we even talking about this guy?”
Dave: Cuz you brought him up.
Douglas: Yes, because he comes on podcasts like this, my point is this is not a serious historian, he's not a historian, he's been—
Joe: No, no, no, he never claims to be. He's been doing these long form podcasts on these subjects for over a decade.
Inserting Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, pt 1, released in 2015. He didn’t need Joe Rogan or Dave Smith or even Tucker Carlson to put him on.
Oh, Operation Unthinkable (Not from Wikipedia):
So concerned was the Prime Minister Winston Churchill, that in the spring of that year he ordered his Chiefs of Staff to prepare a plan, ‘Operation Unthinkable’ to attack the Soviet Empire. The top secret plan was so sensitive that only Churchill’s immediate circle of military advisors were privy to the blueprint. The detailed proposal, which may seem fanciful today, sought to claw back East Germany and Poland, which had fallen under Soviet domination. Churchill felt particularly guilty over the fate of the Poles, who had fought valiantly for the Allies during the war but whose future was now dictated by Stalin.
If Churchill wanted to act, he knew that time was running out. The United States were about to move vast numbers of their troops and ordnance out to the Far East for the assault on mainland Japan, leaving Western Europe at the mercy of Stalin. Furthermore, demobilisation would start after VE Day and would rapidly reduce the size of the British Army and their capacity for offensive action.
The plan called for a massive Allied assault on 1 July 1945 by British, American, Polish and German – yes German – forces against the Red Army. They aimed to push them back out of Soviet-occupied East Germany and Poland, give Stalin and bloody nose, and force him to re-consider his domination of East Europe. But the plan was fraught with danger and the Allied force risked being dragged deeper into Soviet territory to face the nightmare of fighting in a Russian winter. The ghosts of Hitler and Napoleon were never far away.
Eventually in June 1945 Churchill’s military advisors cautioned him against implementing the plan, but it still remained a blueprint for a Third World War.
Churchill’s political days were numbered. In July 1945 a General Election removed him from office and the plan for ‘Operation Unthinkable’ was but away in the bottom drawer.
Joe (face at its darkest): What is your argument then?
Doug: It's a very weird thing to go back and zone in on a man, say this one thing is a mistake and should characterize him and you ignore everything else.
Joe: You're taking him out of context, when he's—when you're talking about Darryl, who's done what was it 30 plus hours
Doug: So, what? 30 plus hours of broadcasting? You do that in a week!
What a fucking fool. I addressed this at the top. The work that
does would be history books if put to text and should be considered audiobooks.Douglas is being very weird zoning in on one thing this guy said and taking it out of context and ignoring everything else he’s done. Gah! This is agonizing, it’s making my eyes water.
Oh my god this makes me screaming mad! It is NOT the algorithm that is making views like Ukrainian corruption, or why did Putin invade Ukraine? It has nothing to do with the algorithm. It is simply this, the corporate media is talking about this. What is the corporate media NOT talking about?
That’s it. That's where they failed during covid, Russiagate, and the war on terror, and it’s why we no longer trust them. We already know the mainstream story, we wanna know the rest!
Countries came to NATO wanting to join, not because there was this aggression they were seeing from Russia, it was because NATO is the most powerful security alliance in the world, anyone would want their country in that, period.
Fuck you Douglas! I love Georgia! I used to invade there every summer when I was a kid, and while I’m taking a stroll through memories, I should probably say my conceived notions I had of Douglas Murray from recent Rogan appearances and podcast appearances in general and that Munk debate, Gah! I get cold chills thinking about it. He was so on the money in that. I can’t begin to imagine what happened. All I can imagine is there was other pressures, pressuring him to address this here, maybe family, spousal, maybe acquaintances, but this is not the same man who made Malcolm Gladwell go on his podcast afterwards and say, “They had a silver-tongued devil from oxford that humiliated me.”
This is not the same guy. Last time he appeared on Rogan, I was so blown away by his appearance and was so unsure why, that when I explained it to my girlfriend, I said, “he’s like the smartest guy in the world.” Well, egg on my face, she watched this before I did and said, “What’s the deal with that British asshole? Joe and Dave handled him like” I think she said, “brilliant gentlemen.” Jeez! I’m an idiot.
So, Douglas has called on us to “Trust the Experts” 44 times in this podcast so far, wtf is he talking about. He has no clue who Dave Smith is, who Ian Carroll is and definitely doesn’t know who
is. This is straight up gobbledygook.I think this is it: Douglas Murray wants Americans to be more like Brits. Eating up the propaganda from the expert class like candy.
This is getting too long. I shall refer all statements made in this podcast to this statement right here:
“I’m a free American I can talk about what I like to!”
And on that I cue the flag:
Hold up: I’m not done.
This Breakdown finished in part two. Part two will be the geographical debate, the Paul Wolfowitz is antisemitic and the credentials of Douglas Murray. Join me, in part two. Or you cannot talk about it unless you’ve “at least visited.”
The Woke Right strikes again in part two.
Thank you for reading.
Editor-in-Chief